Comments on: Kimdedian Creed http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk Reality is but our dreams given form Mon, 23 Aug 2010 18:58:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Dan http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/the-kimdedian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-20236 Dan Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:58:16 +0000 http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/?page_id=436#comment-20236 Thanks for sharing Adam - a great list. Need a bit of time to go over it properly but just wanted to encourage you in this list. It is important to share our beliefs, even if people are going to disagree with bits of it. Yes we may be wrong. Yes others may be wrong. Its the dialogue that it creates that is important in shaping us all. Bless you mate - you have some good strong beliefs here. I pray for you as you continue to develop them within yourself, and through this discussion Dan Thanks for sharing Adam – a great list. Need a bit of time to go over it properly but just wanted to encourage you in this list. It is important to share our beliefs, even if people are going to disagree with bits of it. Yes we may be wrong. Yes others may be wrong. Its the dialogue that it creates that is important in shaping us all.
Bless you mate – you have some good strong beliefs here. I pray for you as you continue to develop them within yourself, and through this discussion
Dan

]]> By: William Stanger http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/the-kimdedian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-20232 William Stanger Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:17:57 +0000 http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/?page_id=436#comment-20232 Congratulations on putting together such a statement.. Obviously a lot of thought has gone into this and I like what you have written. The priesthood of believers statement is a very important one, because I believe, with a few exceptions, that many churches will say they believe in the priesthood of all believers, but will deny it by their practice. The New Testament doesn't teach a hierarchical system of leadership that has a clergy/laity division. In the NT there is no laity and clergy. The clergy/laity division that is so prevalent today is what holds back the church from being the church. Any system that tries to justify such a hierarchy as being taught by the NT is being disillusional at its best and dishonest at its worst. Thanks for such a though-provoking posting and I look forward to more of it as it is constructed. Congratulations on putting together such a statement.. Obviously a lot of thought has gone into this and I like what you have written.

The priesthood of believers statement is a very important one, because I believe, with a few exceptions, that many churches will say they believe in the priesthood of all believers, but will deny it by their practice. The New Testament doesn’t teach a hierarchical system of leadership that has a clergy/laity division. In the NT there is no laity and clergy. The clergy/laity division that is so prevalent today is what holds back the church from being the church. Any system that tries to justify such a hierarchy as being taught by the NT is being disillusional at its best and dishonest at its worst.

Thanks for such a though-provoking posting and I look forward to more of it as it is constructed.

]]> By: Lurch Kimded http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/the-kimdedian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-20231 Lurch Kimded Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:30:45 +0000 http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/?page_id=436#comment-20231 As always Andrew you bring up some interesting stuff... lets see: I did not mean to imply that there are no signs and wonders, more that some are suspect, I do believe that there are many signs and wonders still happening. I see where you coming from, I should probably split that one in two, so probably need to rework that :) Again that was my intent, but bad wording :) Lastly that one needs a fuller description, but it is what I intend to say. Cheers again Andrew As always Andrew you bring up some interesting stuff… lets see:

I did not mean to imply that there are no signs and wonders, more that some are suspect, I do believe that there are many signs and wonders still happening.

I see where you coming from, I should probably split that one in two, so probably need to rework that :)

Again that was my intent, but bad wording :)

Lastly that one needs a fuller description, but it is what I intend to say.

Cheers again Andrew

]]> By: Andrew Clark http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/the-kimdedian-creed/comment-page-1/#comment-20230 Andrew Clark Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:02:51 +0000 http://www.realityofdreams.org.uk/?page_id=436#comment-20230 Hi...interesting. Just a few contributions to the discussion: "that many alleged signs and wonders are faked, or worse" - I know there is some wacky stuff around, but why the assumption that God would not move in a way that is contrary to the laws of nature in a consistent way? It takes a somewhat blinkered look at the NT and at Christian history to take that stance. "in the priesthood of all believers and that all should have a voice within the Church, without exception" - I am not sure that you aren't confusing the priesthood of all believers with the concept of Christian leadership. The priesthood means that a)we access God ourselves through Jesus and not through another b) that we ourselves make up the avenue through which God is communicated to those who are not yet the people of God. The priesthood is not about 'who gets a say' - however, I do believe that our leadership structures have major flaws which aren't true to new testament leadership. The doctrine of the priesthood of believers doesn't indicate that there is no leadership role, and that there should be no leadership. Again, taking teaching on this in context of NT teaching on leadership widens this theology. "that this world is imperfect and that the kingdom of God that is to come is perfect and holy, and that we must work to make this world into that world" - just to say that the Kingdom is both now and not yet. Its not just something in the future. Jesus said many times that the kingdom was amongst them. It will come in fulness one day, and we want to see the Kingdom come. Its not just pie in the sky when we die. Not sure there is necessarily a differnence here, but was just pointing out that the Kingdom can be tangible today...I'm sure you knew that. "that the bible is the inspired word of God, as are many other texts since the formation of the bible" - I believe the first half, I can't accept the second half. There may be inspiration in what people write, but there is a distincton between scripture and other writing. A Hi…interesting. Just a few contributions to the discussion:

“that many alleged signs and wonders are faked, or worse”
- I know there is some wacky stuff around, but why the assumption that God would not move in a way that is contrary to the laws of nature in a consistent way? It takes a somewhat blinkered look at the NT and at Christian history to take that stance.

“in the priesthood of all believers and that all should have a voice within the Church, without exception”
- I am not sure that you aren’t confusing the priesthood of all believers with the concept of Christian leadership. The priesthood means that a)we access God ourselves through Jesus and not through another b) that we ourselves make up the avenue through which God is communicated to those who are not yet the people of God. The priesthood is not about ‘who gets a say’ – however, I do believe that our leadership structures have major flaws which aren’t true to new testament leadership. The doctrine of the priesthood of believers doesn’t indicate that there is no leadership role, and that there should be no leadership. Again, taking teaching on this in context of NT teaching on leadership widens this theology.

“that this world is imperfect and that the kingdom of God that is to come is perfect and holy, and that we must work to make this world into that world”
- just to say that the Kingdom is both now and not yet. Its not just something in the future. Jesus said many times that the kingdom was amongst them. It will come in fulness one day, and we want to see the Kingdom come. Its not just pie in the sky when we die. Not sure there is necessarily a differnence here, but was just pointing out that the Kingdom can be tangible today…I’m sure you knew that.

“that the bible is the inspired word of God, as are many other texts since the formation of the bible”
- I believe the first half, I can’t accept the second half. There may be inspiration in what people write, but there is a distincton between scripture and other writing.

A

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